De-Suiting the Law – Podcast Episodes
Bao Ngo
De-Suiting the Law is a video podcast hosted by Aitken Partners Principal Lawyers Susan Ilias and Bao Ngo. The series sets out to demystify the legal profession, with real conversations about what lawyers actually do, and why it matters.
Across the series Susan and Bao will explore the realities of Australian law. Discussing professionalism and ethics, the discipline of preparation, the rhythm of court work, and the everyday focus on client care. They also unpack how television and pop culture can shape expectations that do not match local practice. The goal is to show the real side of the industry, educate and entertain, and make complex ideas easier to understand.
De‑Suiting the Law is made for more than just lawyers and we hope it speaks to the broader profession and the public. We invite you to watch, listen, follow, and share. Subscribe on your preferred podcast platform and tell us which topics you want covered next
You can find the podcast on these links at: Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube.
You can read about the launch of the podcast here: Podcast Launch - De-Suiting the Law
Episode 1: Law on TV - Fact vs Fiction
Episode 1 looks at American TV drama versus the courtroom reality in Australia. It covers procedural fairness, surprise witnesses, and why lawyers do not roam around the court or ask to approach the bench. It explains the emphasis on civility, and the many months of preparation that sit behind a single hearing.
“There are always common misconceptions about the law, we want to take time to bust some of those myths. And we hope that people will enjoy some of our comparisons between the American TV shows and Australian reality,” said Bao.
“I've actually had clients tap me on the shoulder when I'm making submissions, or if the other party's making submissions and my client feels like I should be objecting, they want to know why I'm not standing up and yelling at my opponent. And I have to explain that there is a sense of courtesy in the courtroom,” said Susan.
Key points covered:
- TV vs reality: Australian courtrooms are far less dramatic than legal TV shows.
- No surprise evidence: Evidence and witnesses are generally known before trial.
- Professional conduct: Lawyers must follow strict ethical and courtroom obligations.
- Preparation is key: Legal work involves significant research, evidence review and preparation.
- Resolution over litigation: Negotiation and mediation can often be preferable to going to trial.
- Managing expectations: Lawyers help clients navigate stressful disputes with realistic advice.
- The reality of law: Less glamour, more detailed work, but a rewarding career focused on helping people.
Episode 1 Links: Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube
Episode 2: The Courtroom Runway
In Episode 2 of De-Suiting the Law, Aitken Partners Principal Lawyers Susan Ilias and Bao Ngo step onto the “courtroom runway” to discuss what lawyers wear, why it matters, and how professional presentation shapes expectations in Australian legal practice.
Australian Fashion Week and Melbourne Fashion Week may offer plenty of style inspiration for young lawyers, but the courtroom calls for a different kind of fashion judgment. What looks striking on a runway may not be suitable when representing a client, appearing before a judge, or showing respect for the court.
Susan and Bao explore the do’s and don’ts of courtroom attire, from suits, jackets and appropriate footwear to the risks of dressing too casually, too extravagantly, or too much like a TV lawyer. They also discuss client perception, evolving standards in the profession, and practical advice, including knowing your audience and the right clothing items and accessories to keep on standby for urgent appearances.
Make sure you catch this episode, so you don’t get caught out in the wrong outfit in court!
Key points covered:
- TV vs reality: Australian courtrooms are far less dramatic than legal TV shows.
- No surprise evidence: Evidence and witnesses are generally known before trial.
- Professional conduct: Lawyers must follow strict ethical and courtroom obligations.
- Preparation is key: Legal work involves significant research, evidence review and preparation.
- Resolution over litigation: Negotiation and mediation can often be preferable to going to trial.
- Managing expectations: Lawyers help clients navigate stressful disputes with realistic advice.
- The reality of law: Less glamour, more detailed work, but a rewarding career focused on helping people.
Episode 2 Links: Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube
Episode 3: Expectations vs Reality in Law
In Episode 3 of De-suiting the Law, Aitken Partners Principal Lawyers Susan Ilias and Bao Ngo discuss the gap between studying law and practising it. They reflect on their own unconventional pathways into the profession, the pressures facing graduates, and why success rarely happens overnight.
From first client meetings and court appearances to mistakes, mentoring and unglamorous early tasks, Susan and Bao share honest lessons from their careers. They also explore the importance of resilience, earning trust, asking questions, accepting feedback and finding the area of law that suits you.
Whether you are a law student, graduate, junior lawyer or established practitioner, this episode offers a candid reminder that a successful legal career is built one experience at a time.
Key points covered:
- Law school vs reality: A law degree does not fully prepare graduates for the realities of legal practice.
- Different paths into law: There is no single route to building a successful legal career.
- Start at the bottom: Junior lawyers often begin with routine tasks before earning greater responsibility.
- Experience builds confidence: Asking questions, observing others and learning on the job are essential.
- Mistakes are part of learning: Owning mistakes, seeking feedback and improving builds resilience.
- Find the right fit: Different firms, practice areas and legal careers suit different people.
- Success takes time: Trust, skills and career success are built through experience, persistence and doing the small things well.
Episode 3 Links: Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube
-
If you'd like to get in touch with Susan or Bao, reach out at the contact details below:
Susan Ilias, Phone: +61 3 8600 6040 Email: silias@aitken.com.au
Bao Ngo, Phone: +61 3 8600 6012 Email: bngo@aitken.com.au
FAQ
What is De-Suiting the Law about?
De-Suiting the Law is a video podcast hosted by Aitken Partners lawyers Susan Ilias and Bao Ngo. Each episode compares TV and film portrayals of lawyers with how Australian courtrooms actually work.
Who hosts De-Suiting the Law?
Susan Ilias and Bao Ngo host the podcast. Both are Principal Lawyers at Aitken Partners. Ilias practices family law. Ngo works across property, litigation, and migration law.
Where can I listen to or watch De-Suiting the Law?
You can find De-Suiting the Law on Spotify, Apple Podcasts and YouTube.
Aitken Partners also embeds each episode on the podcast page on their website here: De-Suiting the Law – Podcast Episodes
Please note: The information on this page is provided for general information purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. It is not intended to be comprehensive or to apply to any specific circumstances. You should seek independent legal advice before acting on any information contained on this page.
Design by: Cabria Design. Site by: Flux Creative